***My Interview with Rob Rowe***

Rob Rowe of Cause and Effect, and now WHITEWAITS, so very graciously agreed to let me interview him for my humble little blog here. My sincerest thanks to him for being willing to take the time to do this for me. There are not words to express how honored and grateful I am to have had this opportunity. He has been my musical idol (and the object of a little fangirl crush) for over 20 years. Doing this interview is something I had only dreamed about, and now it’s become reality.


And now, my interview with Rob Rowe…


Me: Before we start, I want you to get out your phone, take a picture of yourself, and send it to me. Right now, as you are, where you are.

Rob: In this photo, I'm sitting in my neighborhood German pub called Prost. Despite the brightness outside the window, it's raining along with thunder and lightning. Thunder storms are rare in Seattle. After working all day on album art and rehearsing an acoustic set, I came here to get out of the house, to work on some interviews and to be around humans instead of only cats.

Me: So after being with Cause and Effect for over 20 years, you've decided to take a little break and work on a side project. And you have a new album coming out soon! Tell me about it.

Rob: Under the name WHITEWAITS, I'm releasing an eight song album that I'm calling "An Elegant Exit" on July 30th. I'm really proud of it and can't wait for people to hear it.

It's a project that I've been thinking about doing for a number of years. In the downtime between the Cause and Effect Artificial Construct releases and shows, I started writing and recording again with the intention of creating and releasing a 4 song EP. I decided to force myself to stay away from the computer in the writing stage and to only write the way I did when writing songs for TRIP. I love technology, knobs, sliders, and gear but sometimes they can get in the way of the writing process. Like a lot of people in the early 90's, I didn't own a computer so most of the songs on TRIP were written on acoustic guitar or the piano that came with the house I was renting back then. I don't have room for a real piano in my current studio so I bought a Yamaha CP35 Electronic Piano on Craigslist for $200. I'd missed having an instrument like that. I can just sit down, turn it on, noodle around, and see what happens. The first single "Island" was written the day after I picked up the CP35. Best $200 I've ever spent. Before I knew it, I'd written and recorded 8 songs I was happy with and decided to expand the scope of the project.

I had taken the songs as far as I could sonically and knew I'd need help to finish them properly so I asked Ryan Coseboom (Halou, Stripmall Architecture) if he'd co-produce and mix the record for me. He's always very busy and works harder than anyone I know. I was incredibly thankful that he was willing to squeeze in another project. Because of schedule conflicts, the process took a little longer than expected but the results were well worth the wait. His mixes and production took the songs to the next level and gave them a power that my demos didn't have.

Me: That’s really cool that you just stripped everything down when writing the songs, and kind of did it the old school way.

Where did the name WHITEWAITS come from?

Rob: It comes from the name of the street I first lived on in Harlow, Essex. My earliest memory is from our house on that street. Since this project is about stripping things down and starting over from the beginning, the name made sense to me.

Me: You're from England. When did you come to the US? And why don't you have a lovely British accent? I've always thought that the world would be a much better place if everyone spoke with British accents. :)

Rob: We immigrated to the United States when I was around 9 and I started 4th grade in California. I was shy and my accent gave me way more attention than I liked. I worked hard to lose it as quickly as possible by listening to and imitating my friends. Little did I know I could have used that accent to my advantage once I became interested in girls.

Me: What made you want to get into music? How/when did you know that's what you wanted to do?

Rob: I'd always loved music. The Beatles were in constant rotation growing up. Around age 14 I started going to punk shows at a place called Club Minimal which was nothing more than a garage space with a rollup door and a stage. The bathroom was like the bathroom in Trainspotting. I loved the DIY attitude of punk, the simplicity, and the lack of guitar solos. It made me think it was something I could do so soon after, I asked for my first electric guitar. In the beginning it was just a way of having some fun and something to do while hanging out with friends. My friend Mike and I started a skate punk band with a guy that had a half-pipe in his back yard. We would get together, skate and then bang out terrible songs in the garage. I'm not sure we even knew how to tune our instruments properly.

My taste in music then changed. I became a huge fan of bands like The Smiths, The Cure and Echo & The Bunnymen. Near the end of High School I was asked by Sean Rowley to sing for Cause and Effect. That's when I was exposed to more electronic stuff like Depeche and Erasure. We spent a couple of years writing and recording demos. Those demos got us our first deal which lead to the first album. Even when we signed the deal, I never imagined it would go as far as it did. I'm not sure I ever decided it was something I wanted to do. I'm not much of a planner. I just did it and haven't stopped since. I don't think I can stop now. If too much time goes by without writing a new song, things feel out of balance and I get really grumpy.

Me: When Sean asked you to sing for C&E did you already sing? Did you always have that amazing voice of yours, or did you have to take voice lessons?

Rob: When Sean asked, I had been writing and singing for a while but hadn't really developed yet. I never took lessons. I just practiced a lot. I'm still learning and my voice is always changing.

Me: Was there anything else you wanted to do before you decided to go into music?

Rob: I wanted to be a cartoonist or a painter. I was accepted into art school at Otis Parsons in LA but it just wasn't affordable. I took a bunch of art classes at Sacramento Community College but dropped out once we had our first deal. I no longer paint. Once I got serious about writing songs, I just didn't feel the need to anymore.

Me: The lyrics of your songs are always so descriptive. Listening to your music I've always felt like I'm inside a picture that you've painted with your lyrics. I can almost see the songs, if that makes sense. How do you do this? Does it come from your background in art?

Rob: I'm not sure I can take all the credit. The listener, in this case you, has a lot to do with it. I am a visual person though and most songs come out of images I see in my head.

Me: What was the first song you wrote? Is it one that we've heard?

Rob: I don't remember but it's definitely not something anyone has heard or should hear. It was probably a two chord punk song about skateboarding.

Me: Do you remember the first time you heard one of your songs on the radio? What was that like for you? Where were you?

Rob: Sean and I first heard "You Think You Know Her" on C89 in Seattle. We had driven up from California to film the video and heard it just as downtown Seattle came into view. It was a really exciting moment.

Me: What is your favorite song that you've written so far?

Rob: "She Said" is always at the top of the list although I don't ever say I wrote it because it practically wrote itself. That was one of the first times that I felt like I was channeling something and simply had to hit record and let it happen. The best songs always arrive that way. When you have to work too hard on a song, you can make it good but it's rarely great.

Me: I love “She Said.” That song has some of the best lyrics I’ve ever heard. “Insanity will set you free, but lock you up inside your mind” is just pure genius.

Do you have a favorite song to perform live?

Rob: It changes all the time. "Alone" was always good because it's easy to get lost in that song. "Sleep" was one of my favorites during the shows we did after AC2 came out. I don't know what happened, but that one actually made me teary when we performed it in Moscow. It was a great night, the audience was really supportive, and I think I just got swept up in the moment.

Me: “Alone” is my all-time favorite song. Feel free to include it in your set if you ever come here. :) And I’ve seen some videos from your Moscow show on YouTube. It looks like it was a great show.

When you're on stage, do you ever forget how to play any songs or forget lyrics?

Rob: I have forgotten the lyrics or mixed up lines from different verses but it doesn't happen too often. It's when I try to remember them that I mess up. If I stay in the moment, in the song, and just sing, the right words usually come out.

Me: Will there be any live shows with your new release?

Rob: I have one performance planned right now. It is an acoustic show in LA on July 13th at a book release party. The novel is titled The Fall and was written by an author named Elle. It takes place in the 1990s and includes references to a lot of music from that time including Cause and Effect's TRIP. Elle and I have become friends online and when she invited me to the party, I thought it would be a great idea to play a short acoustic set of some songs from TRIP and some WHITEWAITS songs that fit the theme or feeling of the book. The party is open to the public and there's no cover charge. Anyone wanting to attend should check out the events tab at https://www.facebook.com/elletheauthor for details.

Me: Do you think you'll have any more live shows later? Fingers crossed that you can come here. :)

Rob: This is not a sophisticated answer but... I hope so.

Me: You always hear about artists making weird requests for stuff that they want in their dressing rooms when they're on tour. What kinds of things have you requested? Anything just totally ridiculous?

Rob: We never asked for anything outrageous but if I were to advise a young band going out on the road for more than two weeks, I'd tell them to put packs of underwear and socks on their rider. Those are the first things you'll run out of on the road and you may not have time for a laundromat visit.

 
Me: I've seen a couple photos of your studio. You have a lot of keyboards! Can you talk about some of the equipment/instruments/gear you used on your album? Do you have any favorites that you always seem to gravitate toward?

Rob: I actually have fewer keyboards than I used to. A few years ago I decided to simplify my studio and sold a bunch of stuff. I'm down to just five analog keyboards. I own a 1972 Minimoog, a Roland Juno 106, a Roland Juno 60, a Yamaha SK30, and a Yamaha CP35. Except for the Juno 106, they were all used on just about every WHITEWAITS song. The Juno 106 is in a closet right now because I felt like I'd over-used it in the past. The SK30 took it's place in the studio for "An Elegant Exit."

I also have a collection of guitars which includes a Fender Strat, Fender Bass, Gibson 335, Taylor acoustic, and my new favorite the Kremona Sofia which is a nylon string acoustic. Cause and Effect's former drummer Rich Shepherd works in marketing for Kremona and was nice enough to send me Sofia. I've never learned to finger pick properly, I'm more of a rhythm guitarist, so I wasn't sure how much use I'd get out of it. Little did I know that she would end up on several tracks and has become the only guitar I'll write on now.

Me: I've been trying to teach myself to play guitar and am failing miserably. The only chord I can seem to remember is E minor. Do you have any advice for me?

Rob: Practice. Practice. Practice. It's all muscle memory so it just takes time.

Me: Did you teach yourself or take lessons?

Rob: Self-taught which is why I have so many terrible habits.

Me: Would you like to tell me about any of your new songs? Any that you're particularly excited for people to hear?

Rob: I'm excited for people to hear the whole album. This is by far the most personal and emotionally naked set of songs I've ever written. It's also very dynamic sonically and emotionally. It goes from dark to light, from quiet to loud, from spare to full, and from broken to hopeful.

Me: The imagery on "Island" is so beautiful. Can you tell me what the inspiration for that song was?

Rob: "Island" was inspired by a trip to Iceland which had been on my list of places I wanted to visit since I saw The Sugarcubes video for "Cold Sweat" and developed a crush on Bjork and all things Iceland. It's a truly amazing country full of beautiful contrasts. It's small and mostly unpopulated so there's an incredible sense of space and calm. At the same time, you're always aware that under the surface there's this energy capable of chaos and destruction and that the weather can turn brutal at any moment. There's also a stark contrast from what much of the rest of the world has done to the environment. Because of its low population and use of thermal energy, there's a harmony between the people and the land. All of their livestock, mostly sheep, are left to just roam free in the hills most of the year. They don't need the huge factory farms we have here. They just seem to do things the right way. It has a small town feel but their art, design, fashion and music have a big city sophistication and aesthetic. I can't wait to go back and explore more of the country.

Me: How does the sound of WHITEWAITS compare to C&E? How would you describe it?

Rob: That's a tough question. I always think it's best left up to others to describe music. I'm way too close to it.

It's probably a little different to what I've done in the past in one way though. One of the things I forced myself to do was to work quickly, not over-think things, and to leave mistakes and imperfections alone rather than always fixing them. Even if the synths had the capability, I didn't use midi for any of the analog synth parts. They were played and recorded live and when I was programming midi tracks for software synths I stayed away from my usual routine of always reaching for the quantize button. Obviously if something was hurting the song, I'd fix it or re-record it but mostly I'd just leave things alone. I think the result is an electronic album that doesn't sound typically electronic. Ryan's mixing decisions also added to that.

Me: I think it's great that you didn't over-think things and just left some things alone. I really like that. I think that thinking about something too much can sometimes ruin it, no matter what you're doing.

Rob: It's good to question and challenge yourself but not to the point that it halts the creative process.

Me: Yes. And I think with music, a lot of music now is so over-produced that it's almost too perfect. It's really annoying. It just doesn't sound real.

Rob: I have a lot of respect for how much work it takes to produce something completely slick, shiny and commercial. The guys producing and mixing those records have crazy amounts of knowledge and skill. The commercial songwriters that write for those kind of artists are also talented at what they do but most of that stuff is meant for kids and does nothing to affect me emotionally.

Me: You need to have that emotional connection. I've always loved recordings of live shows and demos because they're so natural and stripped down.

So this leads in perfectly to my next question...Do you think you'll ever release any live material? Any CDs or DVDs of live shows?

Rob: I don't have any plans but if the opportunity presented itself to produce something of quality, I would.

Me: I know it's way too early to ask this, but do you think you'll do another album under WHITEWAITS? Or would you ever want to do another side project that's totally different?

Rob: I will definitely record another WHITEWAITS album or at least an EP. I'd like to collaborate with Ryan again and have him even more involved with the production. One of the songs on the album "Hope Is The Hardest" has become a favorite of mine because of the drum programming that Ryan did on it. I'd like more of that on the next one.

Me: Now the WHITEWAITS album isn't the only upcoming release you've got, is it? Tell me a little about the songs you did for Opencloud.

Rob: While touring for TRIP, we met Blake Potter who was playing drums in a band with his brother and sister. Both being drummers, he and Rich hit it off. Fast forward years later and I get a random iChat message from the now grown up Blake and we've kept in touch ever since. About a year and a half ago in the middle of the night, I got a text message from him with a link to an instrumental track, and the question "do you want to sing on this?" I loved the track so I said yes. That track turned into a song called "Stars Collide" which is a romantic take on the end of the world. Months later, Blake sent me another track which became "Let's See What This Night Brings." I still haven't decided what that one's about. The album "Through The Narrow Door" comes out in July. Opencloud's website is: http://www.opencloud.net

Me: When can we expect to hear from Cause and Effect again? You kind of left us fans hanging, releasing Artificial Construct parts 1 and 2, but not part 3. Will AC3 ever be released? :)

Rob: Yes, AC3 will be released. The songs are too good not to release them but I'm not sure when that will happen exactly. Keith is also working on a side project called Solsun. We agreed to regroup after these projects.

(Now I thought I’d ask him some tough, thought-provoking questions. Let my inner Oprah out.)


Me: How would you describe yourself?

Rob: Average white male. 5 foot 10.5 inches. Scorpio. Introvert.

Me: I worked in radio for 18 years, so I'm always curious what people think about this: Where do you think the music and radio industries are headed? All this technology is available to create music fairly easily, and there are so many different ways of getting it out there now without having a major record label to back it and promote it. And it seems to me that with radio, there is becoming less and less of a need for it, because with the internet and things like iTunes, people can just download the songs or albums they want to hear and make their own playlists. They don't have to listen to the same 5 songs over and over on the radio. So what do you think about this?

Rob: I have no idea where things are heading. I don't listen to much commercial radio but when I do, I'm not sure I understand who the audience is anymore. With all of the other outlets available, I really don't know why you would want to listen to the same 5 songs over and over separated by ads for mattress sales and laser hair removal.

The internet and digital media is both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand you can't argue with the ability to self-distribute your work to people anywhere in the world. That is an incredible advance for all kinds of artists and it's still a thrill for me when I get email from someone that likes what I do from somewhere half-way around the world. But, I think the curse is that the ease of availability, the mountains of work available with just a few mouse clicks, and the mind-set that everything on the internet should be free, has devalued the work. It's not that the work is of a lesser quality but there's just so much of it and getting it requires very little effort. For me, that has made things feel less special. That's maybe why vinyl has made a small comeback in recent years. When you hold a physical object in your hands it feels so much more special than looking at some list in iTunes. But, we can't go back and despite the negatives, I wouldn't want to give up all of the positives that digital distribution has given us.

Me: What do you think has been your greatest accomplishment so far? Musically or otherwise.

Rob: For me, every new release becomes the most important accomplishment. It takes a lot of work, a lot of sacrifice, and a lot of emotional energy to put together an album. Because I wrote and played just about every part on "An Elegant Exit" it was a real challenge for me. I wanted to prove that I could do it and to force myself to take on responsibilities I'd never had before. It was a lot of fun but it was hard work, with many ups and downs.

Me: If you could go back and give some advice to your younger self, what would it be?

Rob: I would tell myself to relax and that despite appearances, everyone else is also making it up as they go along. 


(Finally, I thought it would be fun to ask some silly, fun, random questions after that long, mostly serious interview.)


Me: Do you still have your iconic peace sign necklace? :)

Rob: No, it's long gone. No idea what happened to it.

Me: What was your first job?

Rob: Pizza delivery driver for Sidewalk Pizza in West Sacramento.

Me: What did you have for breakfast this morning?

Rob: Coffee. Granola and almond milk.

Me: What are some things on your bucket list?

Rob: Learn to surf. Visit Angkor Wat. Travel. Travel. Travel.

Me: Do you prefer chocolate or vanilla?

Rob: Vanilla. Preferably with vanilla from Madagascar.

Me: I love to shop, so I have to ask: What is your favorite store/favorite place to shop?

Rob: I hate shopping. Get in, get out or avoid it all together is my policy.

Me: What's the oddest thing you've ever eaten?

Rob: Probably duck tongues at Dainty Sichuan in Melbourne, Australia. Wouldn't do it again. All cartilage.

Me: I know you're into graphic design, and I'm a huge nerd when it comes to fonts. What's your favorite font?

Rob: You either love it or hate it. Helvetica. I love seeing it on signs in foreign places. There's something comforting about it. There was a great documentary made about it. http://www.helveticafilm.com

Me: What are some things that make you happy?

Rob: Music. Good food. Good wine. Travel.

Me: What are some of your biggest fears/things that scare you?

Rob: The ocean (re: sharks) and air travel.

Me: What do you like to do for fun or to relax?

Rob: Listening to, playing or making music.

Me: I've been listening to Innermost Station a lot lately and I was wondering...Have you ever actually gotten up on the rooftop and screamed out your desires? :)

Rob: No, that's not something an introvert would do.


And there it is. I still can’t believe I was given this amazing opportunity. Again, sincere thanks to Rob for taking the time out of his busy life to do this interview for me. Be sure to check out his new album, WHITEWAITS “An Elegant Exit” coming July 30th. I can guarantee you will not be disappointed.